Evolution of Market Engagement for Discovery

Evolution of Market Engagement for Discovery
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TOTW - Evolution of Market Engagement for Discovery
0:00 aren't this week we're going to get in our topic of the week the evolution of market engagement for discovery now my first comment is going to be how Jason let me down because Jason always has been good for being If if not the first person to put a comet in at least somebody put a common in in this your hour this week on Monday thing only got one response is a question It was a tough question actually had a couple people reach out to me on Linkedin saying hey can you explain the question that's them i guess it was a little amorphous I was sort of this being broad question so The question was how does market engagement for discovery need to involve need to evolve and
0:42 I think I probably could have put a little more context on it around we're in the stage of it's different now because of cove it in the pandemic and as we eventually knock on wood hopefully are able to start leaving our houses again and going and doing stuff what have we learned during this time and haven't do it differently
1:03 and How are we Gonna change and build a better product proud process program for a market engagement for discovery that would that have helped you Jason
1:15 yes okay with that said The good news is we have this column you can actually have that conversation here so i've gotten literally my pretty much my whole answer because that was I won my view is there's a great opportunity for us to take the best of virtual and focus in person on areas that deliver the most value
1:36 I actually one of the ways rob joined our call is that I did a market engagement call within Stephen I'm doing some research around professional development or product management he and I had a wonderful call and I actually found zoom which is the one I use or other virtual tools I've seen other people use as a great budget affect about to have to fly or drive or go anywhere approach to do market engagement having those those open ended Conversations it was also great as I can actually record them right it it's built into it and people are and it's not as in my mind invasive as putting your phone out on those could say hey can I press record and record it it sort of because people are now getting used to this so I think that there's going to be a way for us to leverage virtual things like zoom to do a broader more broader discovery more discovery in the open ended but then save the in person visits I don't find them valuable for things like A day in the life or getting other stakeholders out to learn from and learn with so I'm Gonna put this question out now to the panelists since nobody else answer besides me and we're Gonna have some other questions coming Who it but I'm going to start with my man Jason right now that I've given you that context you know what are you thinking
2:54 so I think you answered your own question very correctly
3:01 So you know I am and I
3:06 think he gets zoom is tricky and all the virtual meetings are tricky so I think that we have to In order to evolve we had to see what makes cents an hour to choreograph a zoom discovery call so that you get that level of engagement ability the others Gonna open any questions and those kind of things without seem so for example I think I would avoid getting more than two or three customers or
3:37 stakeholders external market anything on the off because you still want to have that level of intimacy that you have a face to face from barbados because of the ability to to have so many people are Gonna do cause I feel like you know you could easily
3:53 you could easily get that point we have thirty or forty on air in and you're not getting at level of feedback that you need but you would have got me for doing that you're traveling call and calling those kind of entitled to be do it did you join eleven webinar are you Gonna Watch it
4:10 but you've Gotta be careful because you don't have users always new guess you can think you get so much more input at once he told you to take your time with it just use the tools as I can replacement for more than face to face versus Do ya en masse Situation I very much agree with you and I have I have had service circumstances where they're like hey can we get a gang of people together and i'm like let's not Because in our E A I I have A I have a lot of bad experience with focus groups which tend to be mobs and one person says one thing or because AH that's a really good point I hadn't thought about it and they all agree with one another for like ten minutes and I I'd much rather have a one on one and yet what I can do as I can have a one on one with you at ten o'clock and under one on one with somebody else at eleven thirty and not have to fly across the country for and I'm reminded of a there's an old dilbert cartoon Maybe I've mentioned it two or three times
5:10 he gets cajoled into into going on a sales call this a deliberate in the sales guy show up in wherever and the buyers first response is done don't they have telephones where you guys come from
5:23 why do I why are you having to me you know in my office and Yeah I find that
5:30 Setting up own car is now second nature to most of the people I'm dealing with
5:36 and it might as well be on one or two on one or two creepy other side of this cause I've had a lot of success with this
5:44 before Ed You pre Pandemic an enduring the pain level on and even in when I had my company
5:54 we we did a lot of job mapping and we started to use we started to do things tree before we actually went out so we build a lot of the graphics and a lot of the work clothes before we went out i've found since we've we since we haven't been able to travel that What is reactive we got the road spent a lot of time trying to figure out what it is we want to learn so we we think about we think about it two ways what is it what what what additional mouths that we need about a certain topic and actually help direct where we're going or are we try to make a decision on something and we need to get something from somebody to make that decision but what I found is that we been using tools like me are and we've been using teams a lot and the white boarding and the collaboration aspect of the tools that made it really easy for us to be able to do the same level of job analysis and workload elses as we did we went out and where you on unlike speed covered about bringing too many people together who the more the Merrier I and it's been it's been working really well and it's something I think vincent said that we can keep it we can tape it I can send it off to my transcriber they can break me can see the video they can see who's talking like a break it apart and we have a lot of great results come back from it oH it to they typically lot of great results come back from the work that we done to the extent that I don't know it will will eagerly jump on planes and do what on new face to face sooner we start to come out of the pandemic has has been working really well at it's best it into the cost effectiveness of it is phenomenal Iran is Anna nature of the audience that you're dealing with where everybody is expected to like contribute and amazon they just think they're just naturally aware that no contributing is Gonna be a part of the call or That's a great Question I
7:52 doubt it well of course the live our lives that I thought why would you even pigs otherwise this no it's it's you know it's a great question it's the it's the nature of the call but it's also you know we're dealing with Ah UM if you look at our business we deal mostly with its be to be it's senior level so it's keynotes corporate secretaries Compliance officers advisers says people who are really serious about what they do and we don't and said so we we were by no incentive for them to participate like the usually customers of ours or prospects but In some instances where the leaders it with multi their customers and you know everybody participates and know and I'm a train moderator know that's where I spent the majority of my career is in research so it's just a matter of getting everybody to talk and then we go in with a plan so either you know when you do your jobs to be done typos analysis you walk in with your your your workflow in a year You're looking at something there's something visual that they're able to see and you're able to work using that to understand the steps and where they're where they're getting hung up in the steps so it's it's you know it's very visual we also do a lot of pre war two will send out Forehead as well the guy or less they understand what they're what what what we try to get him because we're spending was Yeah was spending you would yell at the hour and a half of people which again is a drag on the phone right to have video call is if you go Yeah I I think the longer it goes the harder it is on in the virtual round tom it sounds like your cat wants to say something
9:38 yeah she certainly does my daughter's cat influenza She's doing school virtually we can trade off who baby sits the cat
9:49 and mouse let's get your thoughts on virtual in on this changing and where it's going where do you see it evolving
9:58 Yeah I agree with the comment that I don't see it going back to hitting the road is much
10:06 prior to the Pandemic I had already been heading down this road myself Doing things more virtually as far as in a discovery calls doing research with clients trying to gather information for for SpEcs marine when it comes down to what I found over the past several years especially the past two three years was is it depends on the relationship I have if I built a relationship established relationship with somebody i don't have to meet him bob In person everything's on the Phone I can just drop me a one line email asking if you have a minute and since the relationship is established chances are I'll hear from him on the dare to adjust now will get on wine we might do well back Sam might just be a phone call but we can walk through ideas in it in at that point they're feeling like they're part of the process for development and are getting input and they can see what benefits them in the long run More than happy to do it but it it's that I'd already built the relationship where I've been the lunch and dinner been out will with them for a few beers something along those lines so that
11:20 We know each other well enough that I just ping on and and they're ready to go but it's interesting to think about that because how I completely agree one of the main reasons you do the go out to visit them is to start building those relationships whether it's at an event or timing to their site it's it'll be interesting to see how that evolves because there's going to be whole cycles where people haven't met the people right I know a lot of people have been hired into product management director of product management roles and how do you break that how you create those relationships and stuff Without having the lunch with them the coffee with them that you'll always be that the the lead read hey I'm going to be in your area you want to do lunch yummy want to grab coffee you want to grab a beer and it will it help you build those relationships that being said once you have amidst it's great you know what I have found is I can do a discovery interview a lot quicker than I had when I was doing it in person when you do it in person there is so much of the greeting in the formalities in that type of stuff where when you're doing it on a zoom you just aren't let's cut right to the chase and I can do what used to be an hour hour and a half meeting and thirty minutes because you're just getting right to the questions
12:30 but again that's part of it is with people who have there's at least some level of familiar married a familiar charity and and knowledge with so this has been a great conversation Jason hasn't changed my mind this week like you did last week actually I think he agreed with me otherwise I'm not sure about that the photos early I might flip on it before before we leave this point I'm working with a team of product managers right now in and the product managers were AH
12:58 Product managers were working on work that would be deployed by professional services and yet none of them had really connected I mean they've never met before and here during the in a remote only times
13:13 We set up interviews now we set up observation with the product managers watching the operations people deal with an incident and just contacted them and said hey next time you have an incident Please give us a call and so an incident came up though the rap called the edge of the property manager the property manager set up a zoom and just she added The Operator just shared his screen and say well here's what I'm doing I'm using this tool to do this thing and it's not like I can write down what my processes but as I see things on my own now I need to use this tool of this is my luck logic so he just did a a shadow of him going through dealing with this incident and talking it through I mean the operator was saying now I'm doing this and this is why and now I'm doing this and this is why and the product manager was floored at how much great information he was able to get just by shadowing through them or you know any screen sharing right hadn't even thought about how one of the I guess depends on what the dang life is and how much of it is online how much you could do it assume so Yeah so in this case because they were doing the work you know on the computer it was easy to share the screen and say here's what I'm saying here's what I'm doing here's what I'm thinking how they Steve I have either I knew was telling me that in the last three or four months he's had a lot of pick up in work he does on video based research so don't give hill said our cameras or or we could be things I could have like a foley said a lot of that work has been picked me up because you can't go out anymore and they've been doing exactly what you're saying is they been able to capture the faults in a process something takes a picture of it and then submits it up to a site you see let's try many were
15:12 no not not that one specifically but I certainly have seen everyone I've talked to is is much more open to being shadowed or being on video than they were twelve months ago
15:29 Awesome my My other one is I'm also as you may have heard I'm tech support for every member of my family and AH my mom gets herself in these tremendously terrible situations usually related to windows ten and I finally have taught her enough to take a photo of the computer and text me the photo because once she's in this terrible situation she can't go to assume screen
16:01 and so anyway I've I've trained her to message photos and and I feel pretty good about that my brother in law is really succeeded at getting my mom to get on a mac and made a lot easier don't get me started on they do have my mother said you all are probably that's Yeah Yeah I get that too my dad used to say hey gave your name to a guy a church you don't I get this call from out of the blue and he's like hey this is Bill Johns I got a church with your dad and he said you could help me with my Windows a problem and I'm like go away
16:36 That's interesting because the conversation we had here here's the poll from Wednesday the number one option where I answered and this is actually maybe a where I change my answer balance in person observation and virtual game that's sort of what I talked about how I put it out there but hearing rob and steve talk about the even the ability to do some of that white boarding an even day in the life type stuff virtually
17:03 maybe part of it
17:06 it's hard to empathize through zoo
17:11 right
17:13 there you know
17:15 the I feel it is especially if it's if you're doing it with a conference room of people in there and they're not Everybody in Atlanta Stuff I'm wondering if I would change my Quick question and my answer to include more stakeholders as part of the process because to tom's point you know sometimes you need to build those relationships in person and getting The design our development lead or a marketing person or somebody it may be more valuable to take that in person time to help them get to know them and empathize versus doing some those deadlines or maybe you combined them both top you you talked about the importance of of of you connecting how often did you leverage those types of visits to get A other Stakeholder from inside your company to do the same type of stuff
18:08 with spicer of I tried to get out there as much as possible tried to build that that concept internally that people would go out or would work together I serve a little different and little harder
18:24 where I am now
18:27 everybody's on board with it if they can make the introduction make the connection to the relationships are built there's no problem with that at all
18:37 If it's enough to get me out at a conference you somewhere where I can build that relationship they're on board with bringing in somebody from marketing or sales them doing introductions or getting them involved to try and
18:51 create a crowd her know get get something going it's much easier to to do that here
18:59 eg getting the buy in from others where they can see the bigger picture in like a sales and marketing
19:07 Development if they if they know where you're going and where you're getting information and why you're doing it how it benefits everybody especially the products
19:17 they're all in
19:21 Lhasa Jason West did you vote this one
19:26 deciding vote or twenty point four okay Okay I Alone
19:33 Yeah I voted on this one game and unfortunately I also agree with you here grant
19:38 this will be it doesn't happen again likely but
19:42 it always wants a kind of a tough balance and maybe it really just depends on what kind of discovery we're talking about
19:49 you know I've always liked intimacy when it comes to the engagement with my ARM with my market whether it be a customer non customer
20:03 were not on a product and I'm trying to get discovery on I feel like I have a lot more intimate conversations and I like the way you put hear the bells in person observation he gonna think of product people it's not always about technology and if I can get it in person observation about how their desk is set up how their offices set up how where their paper is because I've seen so many Labor situations where we already have electronic components inside of the software and they're still using paper printouts from some sort of dot matrix print out to figure out things for administrative purposes you can't get that by looking at a virtual screen right so would you if you candle lit really cannot live in a person's world a little bit of look how computers are if you want to see resolutions look at the resolutions while the secondary monitors on a screen and now you know why the some having some UI issues with regards to your user base I've I've gotten so much information from just being a part of that process were kind of getting the kind of discovery I would never want to give that away and also NASA duration lots of people eternal stakeholders is also obvious by the process but with the problem I have with animals there a line like I am into what we're looking for deacon they can just cause different you know just delays or Sidetrack US into other directions of those kind of things it helps me stay on schedule but this then goes again with rob was saying was you know prepare you know preparations key there for all individuals but this tunnel what my experience has been
21:44 Awesome Rob ASS since he referenced you
21:50 why chose one but I really wanted to choose one and three because as much as we're doing work with More people involved virtually in maine getting more stakeholders both internal and external I've also I've upped our use of the data because there's a lot of gems in in salesforce what What the sales people editor in some of the free text fields with others lucky to have social media the Gorilla a social media site and people be in are are talking about progress but There is there's a ton of stuff that comes up in our sales force feeds across the company and I've also found that we just started doing this but also found the so many other places we have at her I think I said the last time lil we have one hundred and twenty product people in my Division that we have three hundred and fifty in the other division does about five and a product people in total that it could cross senior managers and supply and support product support As Awad a Limo going out and doing research those notes throughout the company and what we were trying to do is try to my other people's research now to see if we can pick out some of the gems Gotta Yeah maybe nuggets in each in A in other people's research that they just never thought about sharing it with Us so yeah there's a ton of data and somebody's Gotta carry that data will try to go out there now and What you with our we have a centre of excellence in India will work you adapt actually create ways that we can mine that data automatically to go and find themes that might support them the things that we knew I would have loved to chosen one in Vegas I could have chosen one wrote that it but yes you could have an aunt actually we got a class one of the questions is can be coming up is Gonna dig a little more into the data aspects of i won't ask any probing questions now I'll let us let it come back to Wigan that that that the final question Steve I'd love to get your take did you vote on this one
23:57 Yeah I chose the same as you
24:01 balance in person with virtual when I
24:06 grant you from heard the story when it when I started writing my Book
24:11 Turn ideas into products available from Amazon we're not trying to make these product pitches is supposed to be open conversations immunities i'd appreciate you backing off the pitch
24:23 Look at that out of the video so Anyway when I was writing the starting to write that book I reached out to a hundred people over the phone and I was amazed how you know once you got past the weather or what the cowboys are doing Whatever it was we pretty quickly got in to talk him out product management particularly in agile environments and it was almost like five minutes and
24:50 we forgot we were strangers
24:52 and people just opened right up and at and and one interview I was doing
24:58 at the end of the interview he said you know could you ask me that first question again because I didn't trust you when you ask it the first time but I've had a really great conversation I Wanna change my answer so it was it was really interesting and an odd and that was just using the phone and yet I was able to make now I was in start at MT I was able to make a hundred phone calls for free instead of if you could imagine it would take you a year to make a hundred customer visits face to face and just trying to coordinate the time right I mean just tracked coordinating schedules is one of the hardest parts of in person market visits where you Gonna be when you're going to be happy okay I'm here and how do I get cross town for the next one how long one can I do that I I mean events time adventure go to events that type of stuff that was what that was my Golden right if I could get to an event I would love it if I could get invited by a partner to speak at the event where I would have pursued as there in I would schedule three Dinners then how would have the early four O'clock dinner with somebody the regular six O'clock dinner and then a late eight O'clock dinner and all those dinners were chances to do a build the relationships like Thomas was talking about but also to have those open ended conversations in in in in in built
26:16 so and you know in my experience people are I mean this in a nice way they're really less interested in Building a relationship and more interested in just having a conversation with an interesting person in it whether we ever talk again but it I think fit I guess my my sales training back in the day I think over emphasized how important it was that people like you and you pretend to be likeable and I don't i don't it's kind of like
26:47 once you can fake sincerity you're mad you know
26:52 Oh I Haven't had any problem with faking sincerity I just keep people on the call and say you know I'm really worried about this aspect of product management can you give me your guidance and they like ben wherein I didn't have to you know pretend any happy talk
27:06 but I will mess I mean all of this virtual stuff that I've been doing over the last years I do miss the in person i don't miss the airport but I do miss the important stuff What the way I do my training today is typically an hour to an hour and a half and a lesson and then another hour in a retrospective in it's all on ZoOm and we use meeting groups or break out groups said now that the tools are there we use Miro which rob mentioned you know that the tools are there but I don't either side about being physically in a room with somebody that is just simply different and I I think ultimately we want to balance both of those yep I completely agree so let's get into our open ended questions for the call the first one's going to be what is going to be the biggest difference between mark and engagement and twenty twenty two versus twenty nineteen so I'm using twenty two do as we come out of this we have some level of you know we're able to travel were able to do back to is status quo as it was before the pandemic as as it's Gonna get
28:15 What's Gonna be the biggest difference between the way we did it in twenty nineteen in the way we do it in the future twenty twenty two
28:25 I'll start with with Jason
28:30 are you telling Me I'm Gonna lead Ah Yes well I actually going to on
28:37 Gonna go back to a robber say and I think with twenty twenty two we will i'll be leaning a lot more based on a data I mean where you know
28:49 I was coming off of the Netflix special this the social dilemma in and how I do all the advertising with other data looking at how every of Few of US of meeting polls on mobile devices and I think that's a that's Gonna set it also what netflix is doing with A I am in learning from their customer base and those kind of things It really can assess the tone what we should be doing product management in little bit less
29:15 cut over your advanced technologies that were working on I think by twenty twenty two it's Gonna start pulling in in into those rooms and will have guided sign Listen maybe talk to your customers last given access the things in and read the room I'm using data in A I and start using that to make predictive decision that we should be doing with a romance
29:40 interesting
29:42 big it's a bit what I've got the data question coming up so our sources somebody save some for that one of the biggest places in my Head I started getting lost that is a there's the old I come from the old school of Market visits to discover things we don't know what our new problems and maybe it's the difference between discovery for an existing product in the roadmap of that existing product as you take it through it's lifecycle versus discovery for a net new product or entering a new market right that the ants off matrix type new product development new market development I guess maybe it's it's the lenses what what type of
30:23 Mark discovery are you doing what what is the importance of market engagement for it
30:30 I think the biggest difference between a person and I talked about earlier I think that people are going to be more it's going to be more available to do Good marketing engagement engaging with customers because of the virtual aspect of it's cheaper because of that type of stuff and people are going to be more used to it but I'm not saying that that is there's good I could can't be good because you can get more access to voices but I also think it can be bad because you could be drowned and too much fright at some point you know
31:00 there's too many voices and news to many calls on it and if if you're not The all these different ideas I I know sometimes I can get lost with it and so I think that the big difference is going to be there's between data and all these easier ways to engage with people talk with people I think that The biggest difference is going to be that and more important need to filter the noise because there's so many more things coming in so it used to be just about seeing patterns now it's going to be about seeing patterns through the noise and how do you decipher what's material and what's not so tom I love your take
31:46 That's a mighty big crystal ball of
31:51 a personal belief is near were six to nine months before even possibly coming out of this
32:00 which sets up twenty two is now recovery and egg is Gonna
32:08 is there's Gonna be a lag as to when people get out there and how they do it that then then Frankie waiting for you put twenty twenty three than that I'm okay with that concept is you know once we get back to some level of status quo the new status quo
32:23 but I don't think there never is Gonna be a new status quo There are so many people I talk to who are like oh it'll be like twenty nineteen again you know at the I think our our world is irrevocably changed
32:40 yes and that that's it is there will be no normal as we remember it
32:48 that was the biggest difference between you
32:51 where do you think it up
32:54 it Gonna be what we talked about earlier is to how wow you're building those relationships and the contacts you making her adding get that information
33:04 if you've got a network of friends people that you can ping that you can start to look new ideas or new product ideas are hotter directions to take current products
33:19 you're Gonna be relying more on the relationships already built to get introductions to different areas Virtual introductions people that will help you may any that go into it with some friends that will get you the introductions and help you get the trust from somebody
33:39 and then you can start to go forward with that in the I would talk about the virtual seems be okay right now else is getting that information is so comes down the relationship it how do they get off the ground from that point forward and those those of Us that have some solid friends out there that we campaign an and get the introduction will have a leg up those that don't have those are Gonna be looking for how are they do that then they're Gonna be really lost
34:11 What you got going in that's Gonna be the difference so it's Gonna be tough for new people new roles who don't have those relationships
34:20 it it will be it will be Me I think about the current situation around then in a couple of two or three projects I've got going outside of my primary work at Z M and they come from namesake they get teed up from relationships that I've had
34:36 In their relationships that I've had for some time where somebody says Hey I've got an idea or have you thought about this in them were off to the races or something
34:46 Somebody who hasn't had the time to develop those relationships would look at the market not known a surly where to begin with she I remember being in that position years ago when I get winded us is I had no idea the attacker is somebody's Gotta be there to help guide you to tell you where it starts once you get started you start to learn where to go and into those things but the people who don't like you just said people who don't have that experience or have the current connections can be hard from
35:14 steve mental not that Someday we may want to be thinking about as our weather professional development stuff
35:21 because that definitely is an impact there yeah well I was also as you as time saying that I was also thinking in this community We engage with people that we're not friends with know some of them are friends but some are friends of John's Summer friends of Jason so we're expanding our Little network hear of people who are have similar interests and know I think that the new if if you will that that that the product managers that are coming up probably need to have communities like this around their domains and I've worked with some younger product managers who completely embrace engaging with the market and there are others that just say won't can't I just buy a report somewhere
36:11 I mean isn't there and I'll just report with the answer in it that I can just highlight what I Wanna do so I think that communities was a one thought I have is is held next year or the year after will be different is I think the old normal is gone and we are we are now familiar with Zoom and teams and I think we're Gonna be open to having kind of virtual meetings like this
36:39 going forward I think we're also Gonna see I think a lot of management has has come to this realization that it's kind of stupid for me to drive an hour and a half to the office and sit in my office all day and push boards around on a computer and then drive home the other day me why in the world what benefit was going to work when I've got a better set up at home
37:03 we're also seeing here in twenty twenty a huge housing boom as all sorts of people are saying in iowa i didn't build a house for this I got the wrong house in I don't have A an office I see people sharing their offices and that's a terrible scenario So I think we're Gonna see officers are Gonna shift over to having more meeting rooms and fewer private offices so that when we come in there's a place to meet
37:37 and secondly I think We're we're going to see a need for more communities that product managers to stay engaged for their market are Gonna have to join vertical communities to to keep in touch with people they would not normally me
37:53 Welcome to Steve's Ted talk on the future of work D and grant you're shown the wrong slot actually this is the same side I was on nine hundred and three sorry representative showing the wrong screen I've shown everything Yeah and your email
38:09 where ago
38:12 I did that before though
38:14 I did share the other day with somebody and when I cancelled out I was still in slack on top of a discussion that another person and I had had a bout this guy and then I like skim through it to make sure I didn't say anything to her
38:32 so Another thing that will be different and twenty one and twenty two as we will have figured out what the hell it is we're sharing
38:40 well that's the problem with sharing the screen versus sharing the app guarantee it could be a whole new show Yeah put that on the schedule Rob I'm going to give you a quick chance for this question before unless you want to get right to the data question no actually I did want to respond to do so many great curb that came out of this but I fear though rice syrup actually what's being said work is Gonna change a lot of what we've been looking at is accelerated the trend that accelerated it and we sway especially see it in the digital world things that we dug that I urge you know I think about meeting here we have this
39:19 at the annual general meeting of a of a public company for ten years we tried to go digital with it we did fifteen hundred beatings in the last couple of months with it so in the war The way we changed it it's Gonna change by couple of interesting things that I that I picked up in conversation does now so how you actually go out and you did the analysis of the discovery it's gonna be different because tools are people Gonna use they're not gonna be alienated be able to go to an office does this point and we're closing offices and people are voluntarily giving up their offices like to be able to go there and see people work there going to working either in actually go to somebody's house so there's Gonna be other ways that we can get inside their work flow and inside what I'm calling from a B be standpoint inside there were phone understand that the other thing that this is this is enabled us to do from our roadmap standpoint is to start looking at the world in organically we you know organic growth in in a mature business like ours but we have up here where where we have a large position in the market and we're working off of legacy systems
40:27 We can modernize that system but it's a hell of a lot easier to go out and buy shopping and to allow the small companies that are Gonna Ride these the trend and go out and buy them after they built something establish something you'd only have to do is integrate This changed away from a product standpoint of how are looking at the future so I think twenty twenty two is Gonna be all the things that that we were hoping for a lab in twenty thirty it's not going to be here in twenty twenty two were Gonna be more Nimble who I know well hopefully he's not well hopefully will be out of logical and aren't Agile I'll get addled be looking at at all these new digital tools that we can create all the data going to come to US automatically Gonna have actually go out I can collected all the systems that help helpful using it and I'm going to have a whole new stable of companies that have built something up in the last two or three years that I can go out and like I acquire cheaply or cheaper than having to go into our D n n to N P D process to actually be a daschle development myself
41:35 got
41:37 it's interesting because I think this is the second week in row you brought up in organic growth as part of the conversation
41:45 I think we need to do a session another future topic on The strategy role of product right
41:54 big companies some of them haven't you strategy Officer but the best ones I've seen have a chief product officer who looks at the strategy and then does build by decisions but
42:04 that got me off track from what really hit me what you said is got we might not have offices to go visit clients and you know it might not be a place where you can watch them do their work right over their shoulders that's it that that could be huge I'm not have them to my house so
42:22 that that was that was something I had been thinking about but it makes total sense and I think that's going to impact a lot of that change so thank you for putting that to my head
42:34 now the next question I want to get people talking about is how will better access that analysis of data impact market engagement and I'm not gonna try the full panel on this one I want to go specific to rob on this one because you you talked about how you got started do some of the stuff talk to me about how we'll pay you what you what you're looking at
42:57 so as a civil court We do we do a lot we still do a lot of surveying quantitatively and qualitatively everything now and it's always been this way everything's always been analyzed but we also do we we transcribe everything Emmy do it we have enough away ways that we actually do analysis on it but we've been spending more time that we not you know I wish sometimes that we were a consumer company cause them you have all the great consumer responses on yelp and all these other social media platform OH but we spent a lot of time recently going through our sales force and seeing the other responses there and it's it's gems it's absolute gems when you when you start Dakota so I I I am then he goes back to it goes back to using a can get lost and data pretty quickly and it goes back to uS being able to understand it only are we trying to learn something and then what Ada would we need in order to to advance or to achieve that and aware where we gotta collect that data or we try to make a decision around sometime and same thing what data we need to make that decision that alone that that thinking alone it's helped us really focus in and so that we've done that the other thing we've done slowly nodded as fast as that like is we've actually started the curate data tail so we have all these subscriptions we have all this stuff going on and we've actually taken whether it's in terms are people it out of our alien organization and leadership had to start meditating information and I now you can pull a file up at any time and start to see if see the trends that you know people are missing so instead of having to go through and read everything were able to start to see those trends will pull most trains out of the added data right now it's a very manual effort but eventually it'll be automated with dad I'm hoping it on A change were making out of the speeds point I think I think young very junior product managers are scared to go out and talk to people I think it's a generational thing they they like the they like you know email and they don't want to get on the phone and call call me got a baby put him in front of a live person will have a heart attack and so you know the curation of data of an of this kind of information gives them that sense that they have something to say earlier they they become somewhat of an expert labs topics to talk about up and that's how we're starting to use it but there's so much more me would barely scratching the surface on on how to actually use the data in a way that's going to make a difference in how we design problem What does this data help guide your focus right where do you look for discovery where do you look for engagement is is that were you doing it
45:46 look it doesn't help at all with that ill we go out and do you know what we're doing prior research it doesn't help at all about what it does is it helps it helps us helps inform thirty the challenges it supports what we're trying to think but again week we spend a Lotta time before we do anything now Do we want to learn something M m What data would we need to learn it and do or do we wanna make a decision about something what data do we need in order to support that decision that's that's cut down on a lot of that The Rehab before we were just in lots and lots of useless work it out it's cut down a lot on that and what becoming that's that's focusing us on being able to be is effective in that but the data alone is I mean Yeah IT must be primary research in a specific question the data Alone Yeah what you pull from salesforce is just it's helpful but there's no there's no no nuggets there in terms of ah innovation and discovery and that sort where I was wondering with that so Jason you talked a little bit about data in
46:48 in one of earlier answers you know where do what do you think the biggest impact is going to be so I think using data that we don't that's external to our ourselves our company right now so on your way out on my data that were measuring for our customers and in what they're doing but I think other external data resources are going to be available to us they'll help us analyze trends in the market for or our prospects basically the market to customers but we don't have and uM in I think know how understanding how to utilize at data without having to like said not talk to the customer but you want to solve See what this is browser are out there and how to get access to it to others research other analytics I knew that you can actually utilize and so it is more about like how do you utilize third party data to to help you bomb you will solve Sounds Awesome Steve or time to either of you have A take on this before removing the final question
47:53 no I don't i don't have anything together
47:57 all of us need always have something the aforesaid here it seems to me that the people who are doing some serious stuff with data science are focused primarily on operational data there's there's some tremendous stories about how walmart is shifting around the stuff on its floor based on the weather forecast and stuff like that I haven't heard many stories about how data has informed product management as much as it's been informing operations except I recently read about somebody going through the the
48:38 response cards and I am seeing something that they'd never noticed before so fender guitar has like all the guitar makers are seeing analyze kind of a fall off of sales
48:53 and that somebody was going through some maybe it was a data scientist maybe just a product manager who didn't have anything to do that day was going to the registration cards and came up with a hypothesis and it turns out it was right fifty percent purchases of guitars are made by women for their own use and then the male dominated profession basically said oh they must be wives and daughters right they're buying them for their boyfriends or Husbands or or science and it turns out they were buying it for themselves and and fender has redirected of substantial amount of their marketing resource in to building guitars and advertising and guitars to women
49:37 and that was entirely data informed so there's a place where data could definitely help with segmentation and seeing emerging trends if you see that type of stuff happening Yeah I love that story is to Vague you have never heard it before
49:53 was that sarcasm know I say the story earlier apparently I did that I it ever earlier now you didn't tell everybody got great stories it was the stuff we were recording last week ah that's what I was a so with that we're we're running at a time this is going to be a round robin quick answer and that's why I turned off the things I've switched the question order for that
50:15 we're gonna start left or right my screen so rob goldberg is the person who's Gonna go first then it's Jason time and then Steve where is the biggest impact of new approaches to market to gauge we're going to be seen
50:30 wiping about collaboration tool
50:35 Like the ones you talked about earlier Yeah Collaboration tools Jason
50:42 Yeah I but i guess after this conversation as well in thinking more about it I have to agree on NOv the clutter every tools in your data I right tom
50:56 I were happier the same thing with how we collaborate
51:02 Okay
51:04 Steve
51:07 I hope the biggest impact is that all product managers and product owners and product marketing managers can have multiple conversations every week with a customer or a non customer and not rely entirely on I talked to a guy as a statistically valid sample
51:28 I I love that and you know Collaboration Yeah there's a great opportunity or what I'm going to do is going to build on Steve's and say that I think that it's going to give us the chance to live what I call the utopian view of hay as we identify something We can properly do enough
51:49 initial discovery conversations to learn something and then we can do enough discovery conversation to validate stuff in We could actually use market engagement the qualitative side of market engagement to to better guide where we're going because we it's it's Gonna be easier more accessible to do it more of it if that makes sense
52:13 OH but you know it's you know the world is changing and whether time it's twenty twenty two or twenty two idea or two thousand twenty four
52:22 the future of product Management in especially how we do market engagement is Gonna change and I appreciate everybody's conversations and and Steve I'm probably going to put little technicolor the file we used to say that right for taking this conversation up sometime next year and see how different our answers are this because I think this is an evolving concept in in in we're Gonna see some failures we're getting some successes that we didn't expect with what's going A lot of opportunity for companies are in this space to improve their tools and focus on specific persona is like teachers versus product managers versus doctors but Yeah rant for another day yes thank yous over making everybody have to use a password or a let them in
53:15 with that said thank you Guys rob Jason Tom Steve for being on the call this week it's always one of the highlights of my Week is he's conversation so I'm glad we can keep doing them We hope to see you guys in the community you know we got the question like open ended question goes out on mondays The poll on Wednesdays in these conversations on Friday so with that said we'll see you in the community mostly see you next week of August very good very good