Peer Networks

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TOTW - Peer Networks
0:01 Hello Everybody Grant Hunter here with product growth leaders for our weekly topic of conversation this week our topic is peer networking and actually was not planned this way but we have a first time guest who actually was one way longtime peer networks for product management John Cottrell former pragmatic marketing instructors joining us for the first time on the panel this week John Welcome Thank you for having me and was reported hearing about network why you know as I said excited about John here because the topic was in general excited have about the topics okay one for about five or six years While John was still doing pragmatic marketing on Occasion I'd be in New York when he's training a New Yorker I be in Chicago and training in Chicago and some of those conversations at dinner with some of the greatest conversations and it was Four or five years ago John's like let's get Steve Johnson on this this conversation and so that conversation turned into a regularly scheduled Saturday morning called for by like why do it cause on Saturday morning In that group became what you know you the idea for product growth leaders came out of that group so as we talk about peer networking to have time to troll who's been a longtime good trusted Made repair of mine along with Steve and now My New One I knowed True Peer networks right Jason Vincent at John Harmer Ah you Guys this this cause I say at the end of every call it In one of my go to things as a true network true pick network especially when it comes to ah product management the products way so it's it it's a topic I'm passionate about Ah as I always do my disclaimer is what I'm doing any presentations What I'm passionate about something I talk louder and faster so hold up the stop sign if you need me to slow down with that said we will dive into the questions to them on their conversation Jason I'm not Gonna hold it against you that you did not get in first Ah Anita I believe is still in Switzerland and so she was already well under day she didn't eat coffee when the thing popped up at nine O'clock You know cause you got in there pretty Darn Quick I saw the Notice I was there I was assuming it was you but it was not but I need a word at can't win them all a when a moderate pace I'm still trying to find a pattern Jason has to you do better when you answer on the first in the week or the last in the Wigan in my number of better marines from later in the winter it but I don't know if there's any correlation or causation so right now there's no pattern itself but it came out any actor has spent some time with Pragmatic marketing great resource the product made a peer network has been great view universities student turn out pride man degrees or appears that you really from various backgrounds and education Ah this provides a great deal of diversity
2:56 I thought that can both challenge and add to what you already know and experience this ultimately creates growth both fairly perceptive that was you wasn't it
3:07 I think I put yours on first Jason Oh you do
3:11 you didn't come in first but I put yours first when I was these ants favorite teacher's pet at
3:19 it I was getting the apples I give him every day
3:22 so Jason let's talk about that right how did you know
3:27 how did you get into product man no alone versatile degree Yeah do you want to put that up so the Rebbe responsible outside
3:36 the other thing a trial I've been playing with him so I can
3:43 be a participant can can you see that Yeah isn't ice cream whether we can see it I don't know what that's what with gold with the gallery it's thought this is like the concept of urban so here's from different backgrounds and educations right near La Raza great deal diversity of funds could challenge and add to what you already know an experience
4:07 how much of your peer network is from the coworkers
4:12 very little actually
4:16 so Yeah most my your network has to do more conor regional but also like a center but here I just think that it's important have a peer network and product management because like I said unlike a lot of things for example computer science or accounting of there's no real is done a long history of degrees and product management in so It is not a lotta consistency of background is or what ends up happening is we all become product manager from different backgrounds in economics and art and things of that nature which makes for a very interesting dynamic network of ideas and perspectives and so I think that's one of the most valuable things from having a network specifically in product manager it's interesting you said I remember interviewing something I was a VP avenue for a director position and I went to a liberal arts college me and my My Medic regional about college in the first time ever in an interview somebody came out and said one of my differentiation is I went to a liberal arts college that gives me the ability to think critically and and gives me a diverse backdrop jogging trail I love you get your take on this I mean competitive speech is not really a
5:28 path for anything but politics maybe yeah
5:33 so that's a little inside baseball my undergrads in their political science My Grad work is in geography and you know more often when I I work with folks and nine I think about what skills I'm looking for I'm thinking about analysis right can you see on structured information and put it in context and ah have had the luxury of hiring technologist I have the luxury of hiring a professional product folks If I'm given the choice of product person or someone that knows the domain I'm Gonna pick the person that knows product from a best practice because I can teachers that they can they can learn they can learn if they got the skills they can learn let me ask you when you look take it outside of the people who you hire work with bring it into this trusted peers
6:27 either names and I'll throw it throw out by you know I'm talking about is there something specific you see that's common in their backgrounds is it diversity that's important you know when you look at that close network of trusted circle
6:41 not what I look for is people that have failed and learned from it right rather it's on a background you see it on their resume may you can see progressing progress over time but dad When you Get really Lucky is when they're willing to invest time with you that they're empathetic with maybe being JR not knowing something and I certainly have had to pay that back over the last two or three years I spent a Lotta time coach coaching new folks mom and dad back to your question about near what kind of skills yeah up get up I had to say a degree give me an anthropologist all day long because you know what I get I could teach a broader but I can't teach empathy a to each observation editor a non biased way and so act out a really good experience of my career with with the soft skills around analysis if Jason remind me of work you you stole my answer Gosh months ago about it interesting backgrounds for product management a journalism right somebody who knows how to who Ask questions and do that type of Stuff John cottrell you know anthropology I love that answer makes me wonder of Dax shepard would be a great of manager because he's got an anthropology degree John Harmer I use that as a pivot to you just because I had been shared that driver with recently eyes is podcast experts on experts let's look what you know background of the type of people you work with or higher versus background type of people you put in your into your troop you're net you know trusted circle your three or four dues
8:26 and the three or four dudes in a slack channel is former colleagues An occasion and theoretically we're in a slowly expand that is as scott likes to add people to it eventually but likes the Wagon I think about Yeah and horse chair as I think about like where Like the background of people we hire it I guess we talked about the some before like
8:52 jagger chiles point people can do analytics to Jason's point people who can talk to other people and you know get information out of them in a useful way and have em which is my favorite word about product made ever Ah but then the people that I see this sort of peer networking people are people that I try to use to like level up more and so it's things like this group There's a few not for kids and a slack channels latinos at a man like this product for a four which is her in Atlanta based one Yeah Ah there's a lotta and at on reddit community Atlanta's a great community Yeah absolutely it's son really happy to have been a part of their community and looking forward to getting back there at some point and see I think it's it's a little different vote when I'm thing about people I'm at a higher risk people on but a peer network with yeah like Steve you get a lot of people coming to you i as the industry do it we decided that pioneer was one that didn't age you write I legit networks as I saw the as the it project and retraining pioneer by the way
9:54 foreshadow in the future episode probably This year celebrates twenty five years of Steve Johnson as a product management educator AH it was nineteen ninety six that he joined pragmatic marketing so we're Gonna have a silver jubilee
10:14 Saturn only wrote he ruined my life in two thousand and one now I do this stuff so so so see you know a lot of people come to you you know where do you get a what's the background you look for for the peers to help you to be that troop year to you not the person coming to ask you about to be their mentor colonel Yeah I mean I do have a lot of people who are new bees or wanna bes reaching out to me and say you know for the nine hundredth time you know how do I get into product management
10:48 and you know it's kind of like how do you get to carnegie hall practice practice
10:54 and they're they're looking for you know is there a certification I can get that will put me at the front of the line and the course certification I think there is the course open certification that you might explore AH but in terms of of of people that I network with a mean the the peers of my own it's it's this group and out of the saturday conversations that we talked about and I really get fired up by having conversations with people who are curious and passion and you know an M I Yeah
11:32 Yeah I'll do it I I worked with a company in north Carolina
11:37 and the the VP and you know there's a chronic camp coming up this weekend
11:43 I know a lot of you have kids in our lives and stuff like that but I really want you to participate in Saturday's event
11:53 eaves Gonna be a steve jobs going to be there talking about whatever it is just talked about it yeah he really pushed it pretty hard and he said in fact I'm going let you take friday off to do all the stuff you would normally on Santa
12:07 so here I met up at on Saturday and this is me driving down from DC to raleigh which is like a five hour drive just to go down there not one of his people shut up
12:21 and he was Live it and understandably so and he said the thing that kills Me is I have these people who claim to be prime managers but seemed to have no interest in product management
12:33 Yeah and it's and so you know it's been hard to ign people who are passionate about product management this group of people we brought together to develop the courts framework and thus the open source templates I mean were people who were given up there saturday to do it in at these things that we're doing on Friday with Pride regulators leaders are people who are intensely curious and passionate about product management and are willing to give up their Friday lunch hour so I that's what I look for is people who are curious and passionate took a side note I Wanna see if we can get When we start our podcast none of that happens the delayed who create curiosity code it's a way to sort of objectively score curiosity people talk about the point of curiosity could be interesting expert topic ah just want to get that in the notes AH I would say Steve this is something you could I by any function right i remember when Michelle was working at sales at a big telecom telecommunications company she joked about how lot of the inside sales people they didn't want to be the gophers they never put their head up above the cubicle cause I just wanted to stay they don't wanna be picked on that it wanted if they felt that if they went out of their way to be to do something more That they're Gonna get asked to do more not people so you don't I'm not that's the case or not but you know i we saw the profession that little a development that only twelve percent actually apply the skills so the real jobs I wouldn't be surprised if the number if you did across function you you you you would see there's probably somewhere like that I want to get to the next answer which was need is she talked about their their their communities peer network eyes of the eyeball the pandemic has done a fabulous job mind that also important that were for my career but also from the social aspect it's easy to feel isolated in the Pandemic I'm you know but I'll put the full thing appear if you guys want to read it
14:31 get rid of me but
14:34 she goes to that social aspect we talk about empathy in the job in in helping us do that but it's also you know but that's out of the car
14:46 In these calls it was that when you're having a bad week when you're down when you went in it that the the social support of the friendship support is key Gotta love to get your take mean you live on you live even outside the country now you're international you've built your your whole system they're talking me about how your peer networks both product and other help you with that social aspect yeah just stack you know Ahead I literally had this discussion with a friend and markley the IPad the other day We got on the phone and we we talked about working from home you know it certainly has it's benefits got good but it's instead accidental engagement it's those random acts of interaction that maybe over the course of a normal workday when were in office we don't think about but I'm hungry for the random idea some women mick Maybe when I'm in an office I don't want you to be giving me a lot feature ideas but now that I haven't had that or I haven't had the did you see this movie and it it and I don't know the right word but there's like this emptiness that
16:02 random socialization in a building gave us in so you Gotta take the effort right I mean i'm a ghost recon I am not getting on planes and seeing people now I mean when I lived in Atlanta you Gotta Watch a technology association of Georgia Man right you could do something like that was Great see you in Costa Rica it's now my Bird me to stay connected and I think that's the part that we all have to embrace what you're working from home or doing some mouse it's not anyone elses fault near where you are and so what effort are you Gonna put forward to close that gap right and so that's what I'd I try to take that burden on myself by two and catch up fifty minute discussions and just making sure people are alive and I actually send messages on Linkedin still live question mark in it's sort of funny it sort of fearful Ah right what the answer is but the reality is much is paying each other it's know that we're here together doing something that's that's a great observation in and john in everyone's a he pings me on message drug once in a while which is good for Me I Don't I do ask you if You're alive you do
17:24 in John John what's the answer to that
17:29 sometimes he's like I'm a robot on
17:33 what I was going to say is that there's there's times that if I read a really good article say on peter drucker and that's a joke for steve because somebody's giving us shit for me Always to be a druggist up I love the Guy if I really really interesting article Roger Martin has read some great stuff I'm sure some of that I will read it I will share it on Linkedin and Twitter I'll put some commentary on it but there are times I want to have a conversation about a concept or idea that's new in Michelle's not interested in like air in I don't care about you know growth strategy and aunt's house matrix and you know it's a place where I lost the pounds you know that nobody would both make
18:17 really cool pivot table emily I got a bit table it
18:23 Oh I Wanna throw this to John Harmer and Jason Vince let because you know obviously see John and I know we have known each other for years we would do this conversation you two have become our regular panelists right talk to me about you know what outside of the pushing the ideas in the growing that type of stuff how is it played a role obviously you're here more often than other people it is there is there a social and you know
18:51 something other than just prop the the work cited
18:55 I'll Start
18:58 Sergeant at Yes you can either tap there definitely is and part of it's because I because the pandemic and we are also international at this point and Yeah remove my regular social Circles and all that stuff and so I am You know I'm Thirsty I think might have said that word for this sort of human interaction thing and so there's definitely a social aspect of destiny and we talk about professional stuff we have on these calls but it's still beads that Spontaneous interaction thing that I need in humanity and then for the for dudes in a slack channel it's authorised there's a whole lot of that sort of apathetic interpersonal banter that goes on in their lives that's been very helpful and again these sort of isolating times Yeah Jason well I'm not really here for the people I thought I was getting paid for this so love it that's not the case in in a big me The check on the little can i infer forget you
19:58 Rev share payment by the customer your google
20:04 Yeah those bit a fantastic obviously been doing this for I think we're going on a year almost
20:11 and so it's been really good for the personal level obviously mean up I was sixty one people my company Muslim European but none of them are passionate about product management in I think I have thirty product managers in the back with Steve Say and I don't think anybody was shop on a saturday honestly and so they do they're very passionate about their industry in what their products are as far as product management I think there's maybe one person in there just Gonna learning you know they're doing daily know they're doing product management right now and so this gives me an opportunity to talk to people that are very passionate managers about product management and also like sharing some of these ideas and concepts for me to kind of stay on top of things in ah Yeah there's there's there's so many so much value doesn't I think a commonwealth every week how amazing that these conversations end up being even when there's right topics suggesting he jumped do you think that lack of passion is because it's lack of consistency of what product is and it's not it's own sordid Swim Lane career path do you think about very very very depressed very depressing and very defined career past but nobody has is just the culture of foam at his company so are we really come European based companies where they don't they will strive to to the next level this early in their career you can always just good and and because it is not a lot of self education goes in the park I'm outside of the organization to get you to the next level nobody wants to be the next up whereas in the U S anyway we tend to always want or of marriage and always Wanna get next level so we do this kind of education is so even though their product managers most merge one for engineers and you're just good with whatever they're told to do waiting for the time were they retire I think it's also a different swim lane even here hear the less then the folks I was talking about in north Carolina out of themselves is subject matter experts they were domain experts and they were like where can I go be that you know and they got hired as a product manager whatever that is but we need you to bring your subject matter East to the party and so they're more interested in sharing their expertise and less interested in becoming experts in product management which is why in five years a roadmap is Gonna be stale and have not kept up kept up with the market but Yeah but I haven't hit that again right is it is do they do they get their organizational gravitas from their domain expertise score their strategy and execution I think workers got to roll right I mean where do we put together a professional this is it right and if the value is boarding domain specific information for a single product Managing a backlog to Jason's pointing I can see where let's just do the work and when the work is done
23:18 yo right and then if it Jason promote me at warriors right on if he doesn't get What would happen in all I'm Gonna have a beer
23:29 and you know what happens with me is I get every week I get a request from somebody for some form of coaching which usually ends up having in the thread I don't have any adults to talk to brian that night Steve I just want to your answer about not having adults to talk about product management Ah
23:51 so you say I have a number of coaching experience as where The privately to say I just don't have any adults to talk to about private message to we'll share experiences but these leaders billion network a similar folks and that's a key thing you're an educator you're coach right you're not a true peer to these people right you're an adult for them to talk to at finding people who were in the same situation I think that's one of things that resonated when we had that saturday morning cause was each of Us were trainers coaches consultants soda sort of not employees of a company private of people helping companies with product management so I I think that's a key thing to look at you know and I reference to call my answer
24:30 John if I Knew you were going to be on the call I would not have put some other former pragmatic marketing instructors alumni because you would have been lit listed by name but I didn't know John Guitar you're Gonna be Hi I'm all good there's Noah and Sinbad the more I can just kind of slink around some good hey speak in a slinking I actually am doing this chief product officer role and dad CEO put something on my calendars I wish I could Stay the whole thing and AH but this is great you Tune in every week every while almost every Friday politic Hi Cory I'm Gonna Block on My I didn't Wanna do it on Christmas of like C'mon Steve It's Christmas it could be it us very special topic and I was able to Indiana isn't currently my Outlook flocks get ignored by my Si Yeah but it's one of those founder CEO things you know It We have that jobs got product ideas he's got a product ideas like
25:31 with just a couple weeks ago oh dear Yeah nothing better than an afternoon meeting at a pride good job by jogging trail thank you so much for joining us I Hope I hope this experience has been good enough we can get you coming back because you added a great voice and in US and so if if this is the vibe I'm back by that I can only be like two minutes late I wrote you Gotta two your matches videos sen John Nice to meet you John I think I met you before some social stuff I think it's a melinda thanks yeah Yeah yep yep are you'll be good danger has bigger
26:07 OH you know I think I covered in my Answer
26:10 You know that social aspect we're going through similar things we shared ideas when I I've done a lot of peer networks Stuff I consulted for a peer network company that did peer networks for C sweet Mobile one thousand like if you're the head of marketing for G E health care you didn't L you aren't eligible because you aren't legit chief marketing officer for G E Tony shea may he rest in peace was a member he couldn't be a member the C E O group Because he reported the Japanese US right and I did some stuff and the HR face I'm a member of estrogen when I talk to the people here are three things that they would often say it's about an outside perspective right it's about I'm working on an idea I'm thinking about something I want somebody's outside perspective they want access to ruin your story and interrupt you wasn't a story I'm reminded of a grouping of instructors got together
27:05 John was actually may have been in a meeting to and and I brought up this this query you know like I've always talked about this concept in this way
27:18 but Let's step back for a second I mean should we really be time him at it this way and it was uncanny that no one in this conversation could open their minds to a new idea
27:33 and and what happens one of the instructors said walk one of these searches that I trained said well here's the way I teach it and then proceeded to teach it heard like three to five minutes word for word the way I taught him to teach
27:48 and it in terms of like up in this case a peer network I still don't have people in this particular grouping who had curiosity and passion well you know the had passion about Let's don't change anything because they ruined my story right Yeah Ah Ah end and so you know will be book the Path you were on of of
28:15 being able to have new ideas introduced into the community does is a powerful one I mean if everybody agrees with everybody on every thing then why are we meeting while and that's it oh when talking to executives that's one of the key things is like I want outside perspective on things I'm working on how is how is Google doing it how is somebody else handling these types of issues is that outside perspective I could share I can learn that say Mister I could get access to new ideas This is partly outside perspective but equally clearly delineated you know it's outside perspective it's new ideas and insights and it's a trusted support system right and I think the key thing is to help them grow was I I put that in the one section I think this is right it's not if it's that ten twenty whatever percent of people who are passionate about this and who do want to grow whether that is hierarchically up in the organization or just grow with themselves That's who were the people and now we can start building a persona right around who would be the right people for Troop Your network it's the people who have who have that and so I it's you know I you need to find some like minded people who who are are curious at all passionate empathetic and that lip and your experiences that Iran Yeah exactly indifferent different insights because you know you give everybody you know start of the same point given to two three four different groups each of them are going to have a different experience so they can bring to the table for a more diverse conversation now and I was watching a webinar recently and it it became clear to me that the speaker had only worked one point
29:58 he would say you know at company name we do this company name we do that a company we do the other thing and I'm like do you have one experience and you're extrapolating that to best practices of the industry
30:14 OH my changing jobs every eighteen months helped me have more diversity of thought does indeed Ah I will say that it was something that Wonders as I did that was chasing people to learn from when I when I'm hired by people who I can't learn from I get bored saying Yeah I've heard that described as the difference between having twenty years of experience or having one year of experience repeated twenty times
30:41 the brilliantly I love that Let's get to our poll now bring that but this up full screen I'm getting a little better with this thing don't you think I was going to trick me in the ahead darling and that there's an automated script that I need to help you write a toggle that Oh I don't like your disembodied head and
31:04 is on afraid I'll get myself back up and demand and get out of the way from us so we asked the question the poll where do you go to network with pride professionals and other was two and I was one of those too in for Me I never went to places to network with product of that professionals
31:24 my network I think John Harmer you that their people I've worked with in the past who I built trusted relationships and learn from and it wasn't like a networking per SE I wasn't going to look for them they're just people who when I was at G E There's somebody who I would run ideas to it's a when I left and I stayed in touch with them there were somebody to to stay intact with this group that group of Saturday cause was the first times I had and I didn't go somewhere looking for I it was almost curated by the people who I wanted to Jos to talk to ah
31:58 local events was three and I wouldn't start with you John Harmer because I know you are very active in the logo in in Atlanta's got a great between private for for product in Atlanta and now Jason's product Coffee Stuff I'd have to say Atlanta's got one of the more Vibrant product Management network communities talk to me about going there for what that gets you versus you know more you therefore do three or four dudes and zach channel in in in this type of engagement it's a level of depth difference I think so you can get it like a broad group of people going to the local events
32:36 Meet a ton of People I Mean I think that's how I met Jason Brad who does the product coffee and John Peltier who has been on these calls before I could think that all came through Tag technology Association of Georgia events because I have a really strong product manager society
32:50 then the sort of you you go deep with a few ah and that becomes your three or four dudes in slack channel your saturday morning conversations yeah did you find them wherever you happen to find a they're just you only have the capacity to go deeper the few people have like the true deep trusted relationship stuff there and the rest of it's adopt surface sounds bad but like interesting breadth instead Yeah I went in and maybe it's also of these things it in normal jason is one the changes that challenges my semantics on words right where do you go to network in where do you go you know so this group is not a not not networking now this is a group it's a peer network and not networking so you know I could say that Jason talked to Meadow Riley's got you know you Guys have it Charlotte Charlotte in Charlotte we have nothing rally has a pretty good community that were on the rise got a pretty do what they do so much in manufacturing and product management piece tends to be on the manufacturing side which brings an interesting dynamic a lot of it still has taken up I love it you can't really get into that death because it does change at a at a point where spider doubt be constrained for the Raleigh area even with the product camp it's a eighty percent manufacturing product managers which is interesting it's like where do you go but it did you answer this one though I did I guess they would like the product take more we have a product think here of solar time mitt met a lot of the product managers and I know that a small group from my the product Yeah and I'm actually the President of Product Camp Charlotte but haven't watched it yet okay cause of a pandemic isn't steve was Gonna speak my first one in we could get together so and the depict reality or maybe digitally initially them being asked to do so but um there's a hunger for their community like at eighty L John you Guys are created in Charlotte and there are so many products Andrews air but unfortunately Nola organizers here I don't think but I just needed to get out so anomaly the precipice of that he did offer to you if you want to create a private community for charlotte in the PGA community would be more than happy to now up it's easy to do in a good guild let's give you a digital placed her list start people talk with each other chat room whatever met might BF little under there's a hunger for networking here if I can figure out get those people together and devlin to do that steam We've had the conversation before about how many of the product camps in the meet UPs and that type of stuff often it it's more often people looking to get into product than people who are in product
35:32 how how do you or you know how was that for networking when are one directional
35:39 well
35:40 the two things one is you know I'm encountering wanna be so often now
35:47 I developed a new persona to see if this is some you know a new port of the market than I wanna figure out a way to serve
35:56 because you know actually like our fundamentals of managing products on the main course would be a brilliant way of of skilling someone up who has never been in product management oH it's it's you know I've encountered enough of it but I'm thinking well you know how how bout I support that group and said to complain relative
36:18 but when I do find is you know I'd I like a jason you know i got mine the product or I go to meet UPs or I go to product camps and I've always kind of joked that a third of the people Wanna bes a thorough the people are consultants Ah and a third of the people are looking for jobs
36:40 and and you know there's but there's no hiring manager there are very few high very few
36:49 people who were senior and I had the same experience in and linked Anna I was doing a stint as a chief marketing officer went to link down and join the chief marketing Officer I thought well you know this will be interesting to see what kind of things they're talking about in like the first post was does anybody know the difference between an SQL and an and an M well unlike oh I think I'm in the wrong Lance you know in the next person says you know hey what's up what's the some of the best trade shows to go to and I'm like oh I'm not only in the wrong place at the wrong time with the how and I look at this and I I've I finally came to the conclusion that It was bill with mark on specialists at who I don't know why they thought they should be in CMOS soldiers are not a place is there not a place for executives in in either linked in other places to gather without being kind of whitewashed within a junior levels are you would think I mean i don't get it linked in has the ability to filter people out except manual There is some kind of invite only groups you can be a part of our invite only group but you have to find those people first Yeah and in let's be honest that the activity in those groups is not a ton right is not happening and for those senior people you know to to comments from for us what Steve said one I have to say the joke wait so if you are usually picking on them and now you're thinking about figuring how you kids could support them with those newbie is trying to get in are you Gonna see also do the same for salespeople at around bar know I will continue to be the outlier who thinks of salespeople has brilliant order takers so my second thing was When talking to executives about peer networks right that ought whether it's at a conference or meet up or whatever else normally when they're at a conference or meetup our trade show there there to give a keynote there get there to give a speech there the headliner they are the hunted everybody wants to go there to get their car to meet them and they don't feel true here they don't feel you know mutual anything on that but the same it happens on linkedin right it's there Anybody who was an executive at a company all of a sudden is as a bulls eye on their back because anybody on Linkedin is trying to sell them dumping Adoration linkedin sales whatever it may be just that hasn't become a place and that's where you know the importance of finding that true peer group that you can engage with whether it's in a slack channel or not Java wouldn't talk about that I put this answer on for you I did answer but after you put it in the sights okay and I did use for it and selection
39:39 so an inside joke right from I I I think these are tough decisions question but you know it's a I think there's a part of it is there how do you network and meet people then how do you then take those people and groom them into being your trusted you know Inner circle Ah I'm actually Gonna skip that one quest of the network is that what it is how did you build your trust peer network right We talked about some of the sources where people want to talk about John Harmer meeting people it's on the local communities where it's former coworkers how do you build a trusted peer network and you know not just how to find the people but how do you overtime build those relationships and In another the right people for you I I'd love to get your take steve you know where we were done it together for little bit
40:30 well you know I should be able to say that I followed a very play end approach except now having worked with me for a while you know I'm terrible at plans of what I've I guess I and is that
40:45 my my peers end up being at the same conferences I'm adds a speaker's um I you know I go to an event and there which now and you know there's um April Dunford and there's David Daniels and so you know as I go to these places I often find I'm seeing the same people and mostly familiarity you know like we read each other's books and be a free quote one another I suppose but
41:20 i guess daddy oh
41:24 yeah well in a little bit proactive I have looked at people who were kind of in my space and reach out to them and say you know hey maybe there's something we can do together and usually the answers you know we have to figure out what that may be but we're on each other's on gas were on each other's whether hours and I've had a number of occasions over the last ten years will people call me and say you know how are you doing what you're doing because it's you know what you're offering is different to what we offer but fundamentally you know Business is the same and just sharing ideas on either product management topics are how to be an independent consultant topics
42:05 is very supportive of of people in similar
42:11 OH overtime you know greg pak peck role
42:16 is the guy in the UK in line at product focus Guy so they're either this it is I'm just playing it out in my Head I mean it I have either reached out people for advice or been reached out to for advice and continue maintaining those relationships through email and ends incomes so that that's a great point that we had talked about earlier part of this is Your network is individual connections you've made groomed you being able to reach out over smear an offer in April Dunford just for conversation when you're going through something part of it a peer network is also having a group of people the shared this type of environment that The cause we add or to John Harmless point us through four due to the slack Channel I Am I'm going to get right to the elephant in the room John the three or four dudes the slack channel did it start as todos in the slack channel impute people got added are you did you everybody know each other were originally in the Yeah we all knew each other and work together at a previous company and that's how it started in a goals that it will ultimately grow but in a like unbelievably curated way scots just being very Careful about it which I can understand
43:30 that so it's yeah it's
43:33 it's
43:35 it's not like repeatable Model necessary legislative with lightning struck with these four Guys we happened to do that
43:44 I will let my first job out of grad schools were conferred G information services India company now gee excess are now part of open text
43:53 and we had a team market research team supporting the strategy organization and seven of US around the table every single person if you ask them would say they were the weakest link
44:05 and that was a level of that all privately time I had a group like that at a company now this was nineteen ninety six seven eight we didn't have the same technology I'm linked with most them on Linkedin but I think we lack we lost on that chance that We didn't have a slack channel or linked in or whatever else with the technology how we barely had mobile phones at that time
44:27 you know it's it I I really wonder what would have been if we could if we could do the same thing because I would value that In in having people you want to get out is great
44:38 in this particular venue we would all agree that you are indeed the weakest link
44:45 you are the weakest link hey I mean all my expertise is in the facilitation right maybe the weakest think when it comes to product
44:54 but facilitation is my eye when I was interviewing from getting my MBA program they said grant you're away Man with a bachelors degree in management what are you Gonna bring to this program will take place where diverse like I'm really Gonna Sue Dania have really I at Penn State do so that wasn't really diverts diversity but I I came up with it I'm really good communicator miller to talk with people and understanding different motivations and you know you get all these people from all different cultures need somebody to build bring them together to work together so it got me in so I think I stick with that The Rosetta Stone I Yes I am Jason
45:37 What's Funny I laugh at anyone else in Newport news since it's the ship building community there wasn't really any other villagers we the project managers at it wasn't really there so when I moved to charlotte two years ago I literally I went to leave then look at the of product management kind of senior people were notoriously cheap Prague offers but VP and as a product management companies are here in charlotte in just cold column
46:03 and the topic was what is there here in charlotte for product manager In an you know through the conversation I find out about how they got there what they're doing and obviously supporting of a networked community wants I can get that going but I thought was an interesting approaches is a new kind of curious Funny people arrive at a level that you want and AM connected with our interest asking for a brief phone call and just having a topic to talk about Rebecca not with twenty minutes a time incentive I do know some off easy reach out at any time and they've been very supportive with trying to get networking going here and so it's been it's been interesting
46:42 so you're you're in a place where outside of this group you beer More individual had one on one but sounds like in the in the shop are you Guys we're going to buildings on there's going to be a more group Yeah we're looking to create unity but a family units like we were passionate about it to keep moving forward in their bills just Gonna want something to happen for it Yeah I built the Dhabi supported looking you should talk to Jason bred in Atlanta whose I'm very connected Jason Shirk our Universe was a reach out to Jeff has east he's making things happen in Nasser Guy now is Ellen energy than I do but
47:17 Yeah ideally one other person to out about eight I remember when I was up there was up
47:26 back before products AH
47:30 Members name right now but I was in Boston and he wanted to start a a product management association in Boston was the only product management association that had a name instead of an acronym
47:43 everybody else was like the TCP Ama Boston is Boston Products on Org which I think is brilliant and yet the people were there to care for because they refer to it as BP America but Anyway Ah I remember tess vividly saying to the President of this this organization Trick is to
48:04 to volunteer other people
48:08 what generally happens is the president says will somebody get Pizza no one Ellen Ellen Okay I'll get Pizza In somebody set up a website nobody nobody nobody Okay I'll set up the website and what you really need to do is is have what you have to have more than yourself in the meeting but now once you do if like Hey John would you bring the Pizza next time Hey Jason could you Together a boilerplate website for Us to look out of your way for now and and I think in my experience most people are perfectly willing to be volunteered but are very reluctant to actually volunteer
48:43 they have to be in the room with you I mean you can't just randomly call somebody say would you set up a website on air
48:50 certain go back to what originally was go to the first question by use the second question because it's rightly that What role does product management your prep product made with pure network play in your professional development so John I'm Gonna go back to you in I mean you got a good core group those three or four guys who you've worked with before you've now got Yeah hopefully OS and some those stuff you do in Atlanta area how does that help your you as you develop professionally
49:15 I think we sort of talked about this a little earlier it's around the diversity of ideas and different approaches in different term perspectives think that's the key element right because it's really easy to get caught up especially if you're that Guy Steve was talking about is only worked in one place in the way it's done here or the way I'm doing it now and lose track of how it could be better sometimes
49:37 so just like when you have whatever the problem is I'm Gonna the team like Hey I need help with this or what do you think I should do in this scenario or are those kinds of things are just having just random conversations about odder topics and you're something I'm working on which happens with the dudes and slack channel and just seeing that perspective is super valuable to me
50:02 know one of the challenges is asking questions that we're not Gonna have already answered before because often in the beginning we we we start talking in on that answers from Monday and I'm like wait a second that's my Clutch spinsters help us gather but Yeah I think that's key it's you know that outside perspective to talk to me about you know your personal network and the people you've met professionally or even the EU what What's happened with the the group of developed building here how do you see that a song is helping profession about your professional development Yeah I mean absolutely I mean all week long so secret about Me I can't imagine ever doing anything else besides product management ever much if you ask me to do another old accompany I won't take it it's Gotta be something a product games with like I just don't care about anything else and so I a life I think about it all the time and so this gives me an outlet to be able to talk to some of the things I'm thinking about especially the format of this where I'm actually thinking about the topic from Monday as it's introduce all evil arts AH but AH it's all gives me something to think about and not really energizes BS I'm Gonna take him a product manager while I'm doing my personal stuff you know and innocuous the work tests and so I think that I'm leveling up if you will subconsciously why being involved in these conversations I get dwell on hollywood and there's the gold the job coming with Who you ask a question and I think about it all week long I you know
51:35 it isn't the favorite ah no but seriously you know you think about it we discussing some you know it's it's deeper and I posted an article or an insight on Lang Dan and I get three hundred and fifty people who give me a heart
51:55 any like ugh but nothing else at all except you know it some added value like good point steve you don't I mean there's there's no death so critical thought applied to the thresh mata sure why but I will repeat that retreat this without having read it There's the difference between a one way street the a two way street right and so we we wanna build these trusted relationships where were giving and we're getting from other people in this whole Social networking I'll use that as a generic term for Linkedin Twitter Facebook whatever else most of it's built around
52:35 one way right I share something and people give me a lake or A celebrate or an insightful or whatever they knew all the things am only dinner it there's not a dialogue there's not a conversation and you know I think you know John Harmer and I when we were talking last week about ideas around podcasting we blew it the Cute centrally for me was the conversation because I could interview John and I could get good questions but then that's not a evolution doesn't evolve the thought it doesn't challenge and we don't grow with it and so for Me you know individual peers have helped my meal my network in my press develop both by getting me into roles that challenge me and help me do that but also give me support
53:21 when I needed it right An event I don't know how much the network ever did in education for me but the deftly brought me new ideas and new perspectives to help me succeed with where I'm going and where it where we're about to the top of the hour so I Wanna get too are lightning rod Question Ah we did that one already ah what is one word or phrase to describe the importance of professional peer networks to you and we're going to start with Jason and go to Johns Oh Jason one word or phrase to describe the importance i your networks steal
53:55 a ago
53:58 john did he steal yours totally stole mine so what's it worth more a growing ever grow heaven
54:08 challenge
54:11 growth and challenge and steve diversity of thought growth and challenge and diversity of thought and I'm Gonna add shared empathy
54:26 sit there sometimes you can't if somebody hasn't gone through what you're going through it's you know that people don't understand and so for me it is growth it Is Diversity of thought it is mosher John
54:43 Allen Challenge a challenge challenge and to me it's all of those things and it's that shared empathy you get from these trusted people so i Wanna Thank Jason for spending all week thinking about this topic
54:57 but as always John the Jason Wonderful Conversation John Cottrell leave earlier thank you for being part of the conversation
55:07 Jason Nose on Monday the question goes in so he knows what to think about that week on Wednesday we have the pool and on Friday we have these wonderful conversation so Guys thank you very much for being part of my one of My Peer Networks Professionally I've really enjoyed this and you guys have a great weekend
55:26 The excellent actor but he's